Data centers in space

The difference between Americans and Europeans, is that they’ve reached the standard of living where priorities shift and you start thinking more about the bigger picture, but responded differently. Europeans came to recognize that the world is finite. That’s why the European Union today has an explicit goal of reducing overall energy consumption.

Americans don’t have this. A lot of American problems can be reduced to the fact that they’re now facing the sort of limits to growth that Europe had to deal with during the first half of the 20th century. Europe was the first continent to industrialize, so it was the first continent that had to confront the limits to growth. Long ago we ran out of wood and peat, by the first world war Britain reached peak coal, Germany followed a few decades later.

Europeans had to come to terms with limits, long before Americans did. It was as difficult for us, as it is for Americans today. Germans as you may recall, elected an Austrian dictator who insisted his overcrowded empire deserved “living space” in the East. The horrible war that followed was his response to limits to growth. Trumpism, with its desire to deport millions of people and to annex Canada and Greenland, shares some similarities to Hitlerism.

You also see the problem in our cities. Our streets were narrow because they were built long ago, so as the population grew, we had to resort to public transport and bicycles to move people around in our city centers. Americans built most of their inner cities wider. Some Europeans who could not come to terms with the reality of limits, left for the New World.

But what happens in America now, is that people grow increasingly delusional, as they increasingly face the same sort of limits Europeans already encountered decades ago. When Elon Musk and Sam Altman have to answer where they’re going to put all these polluting data centers for their imminent AI God that the general American public does not want in their backyard, they respond by saying they will put the data centers in space. In case you need to have it explained to you, here’s why this is extremely silly, but I think it’s more interesting to ask ourselves where this mentality of perpetual growth comes from.

When Sam Altman promised that Artificial Intelligence is going to deliver everyone abundant energy, solve global warming and increase life expectancy, he wasn’t just speculating on his own. He was pushing the talking points of the “rationalists“, what basically amounts to a Silicon Valley cult of AI worshippers, who expect that AI is going to solve all of the world’s problems.

Essentially, these people hate nature, but it takes some puncturing of their ideas to recognize this. On a surface level they care deeply about animal welfare, but they focus on animals that are numerous, like insects and shrimp. You’ll find strange debates among this crowd over whether shrimp suffer or not.

The conclusion they’re generally trying to reach for is that nature is full of vast suffering and thus it has to be re-engineered by their machine-God to eliminate suffering. Some of them go off the deep end, like the Zizians, a schismatic offshoot of the rationalists, who want to kill other rationalists who are not vegan, fearful of their machine God not being vegan. None of these people can accept the pagan idea that suffering is the price worth paying that we’ll have to accept for living in this world.

The rationalists overlap with the singularitarians and the “effective altruists”. Effective altruism started out long ago as pretty useful. They would look at what are useful causes to donate money to. As an example, they would be the sort of people who figured out you can increase people’s IQ and health by eliminating parasites through cheap drugs in countries like Haiti.

After a while however, these people all converged on the idea that we were going to build a kind of machine God known as AI, that was going to solve all our problems for us, as long as we manage to address the “alignment problem”, the risk of an AI God’s goals not being aligned with our overall welfare as sentient beings. And that’s where the whole thing turns into a cult.

You see, fundamentally all these people suffer from what I would refer to as the American pathology, the idea that we still live in a world of vast unlimited opportunities, rather than a world that has exhausted most natural resources and now faces the difficult puzzle of keeping 8 billion people alive as our fertile soils flush into the ocean, our mines are exhausted and our planet begins to heat up.

The rationalists adhere to a kind of extreme whig history view of the world, where everything steadily gets better, with Artificial General Intelligence being the last invention mankind makes, before our problems just start to be solved for us. The American economy today is in a bubble kept together by AI, as the tech billionaires essentially aligned their own pursuit of perpetual economic growth to the goals of the rationalists.

I don’t know if it’s possible to simulate a kind of superhuman intelligence on a computer, although I find it highly unlikely. What I do know, is that high levels of intelligence generally don’t translate into power. The people who rule our world today don’t rule over us because they are so intelligent. They rule because they are charismatic, extraverted and don’t mind lying and exploiting their own followers to pursue their goals.

Power in our world, is held by charlatans. The reason for that is because people now have expectations for their future that can’t be met and charlatans are willing to make promises to their victims about the future that they can’t fulfill. I would expect to see the promise of an imminent machine God unfold in the same manner as Musk’s promise of a manned base on Mars.

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borya

I think the solution to scarcity and limits is a lot fewer people, I’m sure THEY have figured tis out. The major reason for AI in space is so i can’t be turned off, can’t have the locals with pitchforks to burn it down. Autarky is what Trump seems to want.

Charlie the Scorpion

Cyber, you’re too young to remember those obnoxious Sally Struthers (costar of Meathead on AITF) commercials that were constantly playing on the teevee, begging for money for the poor, starving children of Africa.
The African population is now exploding into the BILLIONS, which I do not want.

Charlie the Scorpion
Diogenes

Quote Rintrah: “Trumpism, with its desire to deport millions of people and to annex Canada and Greenland, shares some similarities to Hitlerism.”

Be happy that you are a Dutch, because if you would be a german they would visit you in the early morning while you welcome them in your bathrobe and would drag you to prison in your bathrobe, while telling you that you have trivialized National-Socialism and will be prosecuted.

But back to your topic, data centers in orbital space for better cooling.

I’m proud that I can say I never communicated with AIs. Once I opened a window to ChatGPT, but that blinking waiting cursor triggered fear because I realized that I was facing a big machine with abilities I can only forsee. Then I closed the window. Unavoidable I do communicate with AIs if I make a google-request and get an AI generated answer, but aside of this I deny any communication with them.

Quote Rintrah: “Power in our world, is held by charlatans.”

You see this wrong. They are not charlatans, they have just realized that since 2020 rationalism became secondary while emotions became primary. They are clever social enigneers who use the changed winds.

Diogenes

The american author CJ Hopkins wrote a book “The Rise of the New Normal Reich”, where he made comparisons between the Corona-Time and the Hitler-time.

He was charged and the case is still ongoing. He faces a fine or imprisonment.

Diogenes

Showing the Swastika isn’t regulated in a way that it’s always forbidden. It Is allowed if it’s clear that it’s in a critical context. Therefore you can watch films in Germany where the nazi playing actors have all swastikas. They don’t get prosecuted because of showing the swastika.

But evil politicans do like as if Hopkins would have shown the swastica without critical context, allthough the whole book is a critic of the Hitler-Time. And the judges do what the politicans say.

The so called “separation of powers”, Legislative, Judiciative, Executive, is only a fair-weather construct, which they throw off the table whenever there is an opportunity, like a bioweapon-hazard camouflaged as pandemy.
If there was a seperation of powers, it went gone 2020.

F. K.

It’s just a scam to get taxpayers to pay billions to oligarchs for useless junk

Arrogant idiot authoritarians such as the current one in the White House love grandiose projects. They are easy to scam

Jochen Schmidt

Off topic:

Hey, once you’ve been reflecting about medicinal mushrooms or so. So, do you know this study? Psilocybin triggers an activity-dependent rewiring of large-scale cortical networks, see: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2025.11.009

One dose of psilocybin induces structural remodeling of dendritic spines in the medial frontal cortex in mice. The dendritic spines would be innervated by presynaptic neurons. Here, using monosynaptic
rabies tracing, we map the brain-wide distribution of inputs to frontal cortical pyramidal neurons. We discover that psilocybin’s effect on connectivity is strengthening the routing of inputs from perceptual and medial regions (homolog of the default mode network) to subcortical targets while weakening inputs that are part of cortico-cortical recurrent loops. The pattern of synaptic reorganization depends on the drug-evoked spiking activity because silencing a presynaptic region during psilocybin administration disrupts the rewiring. Collectively, the results reveal the impact of psilocybin on the connectivity of large-scale cortical networks and demonstrate neural activity modulation as an approach to sculpt the psychedelic-evoked neural plasticity.

Gullible stoner

1. If you don’t know how to identify an AI generated word salad journal abstract by now then there is no hope for you.

2. I doubt our host is going to be posting anything psilocybin related any time soon, don’t you?

Diogenes

As technician I always wonder why all ignore the basic structure of our brains:
Four lobes connected with a central part, called “corpus callosum”.

I could say so much about this basic struture … but I prefer to choose intelligent and critical minds to find out by themsleves what that means.

Pleiadian Hate Lord (formerly Fucko)

Hitler had one thing right – the only practical constraint really standing in the way of perpetual growth and improvement is the existence of other tribes. There’s functionally infinite resources on this planet just sitting there waiting to be utilized, the only problem is that there’s a bunch of congenital enemies in the way.

This is in no way a new or unique observation, I’m simply testing out the new posting system.

Michael

>There’s functionally infinite resources

Oh look, another idiot who does not understand entropy.

Charlie the Scorpion

Thank you, Rad.

You said
> I would expect to see the promise of an imminent machine God unfold in the same manner as Musk’s promise of a manned base on Mars.

Like on the 12th of Never? Haha

As a simpleminded merkan I actually believe both these things will probably come to pass, and soon. Not sure about a colony on Mars (so expensive and will Elon live long enough?) but AI is truly taking off at warp speed and will have more credibility to humanity than major religions, billions of people turning to it for answers…

Optimistic maybe isn’t the appropriate word. I just see it as probably happening. We all have different perspectives.

Pleiadian Hate Lord (formerly Fucko)

That’s okay, it was basically a throwaway comment and I’m not married to the specifics of that perspective.

Go ahead and say your piece, maybe I’ll learn something.

Wombat

Europeans may have learned some lessons and taken some steps about how to live inside the capitalist industrial technological system’s limits, whereas America may still be pretending that those limits don’t exist, but both still have capitalism at their core and both are now facing the same grim global reckoning that neither can escape either on their own or together. Both are part of the same global capitalist system. They may have some different aspects to them that shape how overproduction, denial and militarization appear, but they still manifest. Neither offers an exit. Capitalist overproduction results in surplus capital that seeks new outlets. So, for argument’s sake, let’s say the American version of denial is this Star-Trek AI messianic thing: AI techno fetishism/mania provides a sink for investment and justifies increasing energy use and has this narrative: “We are one final invention away from solving it all! A new capitalist eutopia that defeats thermodynamics is just around the corner! Come with us! To infinity and beyond!” What is the European version of denial? Well, I suggest it’s probably that the Europeans are already managing to live within limits! Green growth etc. They create fantastical bureaucratic accounting system to count emissions… Read more »

Diogenes

Quote Wombat: “Why should this crisis resolve any differently?”

My hope is that this time it is different, because there is no will to make war in the populations of all countries. The little war howling I can hear comes from some radicalized leftists, too few to ignite war enthusiasm.

Quote: “You cannot have infinite growth in a finite system.”

From which kind of system do we talk?
Planetary, solar, interstellar, galactic … ?

Wombat

The Earth is finite in every way that matters to a civilization, even if it is not closed off from the rest of the universe in the most literal sense.

On the war talk, it seems to me that we are hearing increasingly frequent and bellicose talk coming out of Europe.

Lots of spending on armaments, talk of conscription, etc.

There is a war going on there now that would have been unthinkable not so long ago.

Attacks on strategic nuclear bombers etc.

Hmmm, I wonder where that sort of thing might lead?

Diogenes

Don’t take the European leaders too serious, they all have a big mouth but they were never able in decades to form a real European Army, like the U.S.Army.

I think the most danger comes from Macron, who use all tricks to stay in power. But the day will come when Macron has to go (and I hope he goes the way of Sarcozy, who is now in prison). If Macron is gone it will become better.

Michael

>Capitalist overproduction results in surplus capital that seeks new outlets

And no other society ever overproduced anything.

I thought the hiatus would clean up.

Wombat

“And no other society ever overproduced anything.” The driving force of production in capitalism is profit, not need. The profit motive leads to players competing to increase productivity, which in turn means ever more goods are produced. At the same time, wages are kept down (the profit motive at work again), so workers cannot buy back what they produce. The end result? Overproduction/overaccumulation of goods, capital, and labor that cannot be profitably absorbed. This in turn leads to falling profits, unemployment and idle factories, and financialization/speculation to absorb the surplus. And hey presto, just another bog-standard capitalist crisis with its stagnation and struggles to make a profit, and unemployment and shuttered factories and misery, and ramping authoritarianism to stifle dissent etc., etc. The capitalist system will struggle to find ways to resolve the issues by expanding (AI, Green Growth, etc.), but these are doomed to fail eventually as there are biophysical limits. And when all else fails to resolve that crisis? Then comes ramping authoritarianism, militarization, and finally war, which even if previously held as unthinkable, suddenly starts looking like the only attractive option. Even if we identify people who have overproduced that were not capitalists driven by the profit… Read more »

Michael

>Power in our world, is held by charlatans.

Meh. Many are not. Look at BRICS and you see why.

Lynne

I do not understand the AI apologists who say that we will all be wealthy under UBI with stuff made by AI. There are only so many lobsters in the ocean. No, farmed salmon is not healthy; no the rapeseed pellets fed them do not keep them healthy. There are only so many airports and so many seats on airplanes. Only so many people can fit in Disneyworld or in venice. Only so many spots in Harvard; we all won’t be invited to debutante balls…

Charlie the Scorpion

Hey Cyber, make an effort to say something constructive to the conversation rather than just toss off a worthless waste of space such as “You’re wrong and cringe.”
This isn’t your blog.
And how close are you getting to becoming a missionary in Africa?

Charlie the Scorpion

I made a response.
At least I’m sure Fucko agrees with me.

Doctor Strangelove Jr

I agree with a lot of what Wombat said above, though who knows how exactly the specifics will pan out– it won’t be pretty, though. My 2 cents: another big problem is the injection of trillions of fake dollars into the system, which has corrupted the whole thing. They call you a libertarian Boomer when you say this, but Rintrah used to make the point that Western elites don’t engage with reality– well, this is one big reason why. When you look at things from the naive market efficiency perspective, you’re faced with the fact that the new generations of industrial products– like cars, for example, but it applies to most things– are both more expensive and less efficient than the stuff that was made in earlier decades like the 2000s. It’s all gone backwards. You’d think that given the circumstances (younger gens poorer than their parents, rising prices for just about everything, etc) they would be laser-focused on squeezing the most out of things, making products that are smaller and cheaper and more efficient, but it’s the opposite: the slop they churn out is super-bloated, super-expensive, and inefficient all at the same time! Just worthless garbage. This is because… Read more »

Wombat

“Just a massive recipe for disaster.”

I reckon we can all agree on that.

To which I will only add that although the empirical evidence does not kill off the high likelihood if not inevitability of war and systems collapsing, it does kill off the idea that life becomes pointless and meaningless and not worth living just because that does happen.

So, my Christmas message of hope and good cheer to everyone is that the value of our existence is not the same thing as the fate of the doomed system.

Mehen

Dr. Strangelove:

Great comment I agree with most of it

But you said

> AIs behave more like mentally ill or senile people than anyone smart or competent, etc.

Disagree. My interactions with ChatGPT have done more for me to resolve some of my deepest psychological issues than my psychotherapist ever has. At the very least, it is “always there” to respond to the churning and obsessive thoughts on my brain which no human would ever have the patience for.

Doctor Strangelove Jr

Thanks, I was wondering where you’d gone. 🙂 I’ll admit I’ve never used A.I personally, out of pure hostility / seething disdain, so I can’t speak to your personal experiences with it. Like any other tool in life, if it actually makes things easier for you– good. Mainly I’m going off of what other people have written: https://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly25/AI-hype7-25.html To me it just seems like the usual type of super-expensive slop project, where the nerds just get on a treadmill and keep on promising wonderful results in 5 yrs (and with another billion dollars), but it will never succeed– not due to lack of effort or funding, but simply because the basic underlying logic of the entire approach doesn’t work. It then devolves into spending more and more, while getting less and less out of it– similar to green energy– and then they keep promising that ‘We’ll reach our goals soon’ and so on, until they eventually run out of other people’s money. Good projects should be the opposite of this: you pay a high cost at the beginning, but then you pay less and less over time as the thing becomes more capable of supporting itself– not constantly keeping things… Read more »

AI itself is a massive pattern-detector, whose job is just to notice correlations within whatever data you feed it or train it on. So it can appear relatively competent or smart, assuming it has enough data, and that’s why it can do OK at imitating people. The problem with that approach is it has no ability to think outside the box, extrapolate, use intuition, make connections between things, or do any of the other things that actually make the human brain efficient when it comes to learning and understanding things. So it has to ‘learn’ each individual thing through a tremendous investment, each and every time, in order to ‘understand’ something and mimic the level of an average person (who doesn’t need trillions of dollars in order to learn basic things, since our brains are way more efficient, elegant, etc than this slop). And in some areas, it can’t even accomplish that basic level– it has trouble drawing hands, because computers will never reach the basic understanding of physics that even 5 yr olds have. And even if you could program some kind of understanding of physics into them, it would be so expensive and take so much time that… Read more »

Doctor Strangelove Jr

I agree with that too, I don’t mean to endorse nihilism or hopelessness as the best course of action.

If anything, more like– accept where things are headed, be humble, and reinvest that energy into your immediate social networks or community or somewhere where you can make a difference.

The whole big thing feels like it’s headed for another version of WW1, maybe between America and someone else or maybe within different factions in America, and nobody realizes that there’s no point competing because nobody’s going to win (some will lose, and others will lose harder).

borya

Ok somewhat related. I was chatting to my buddy google AI. I was asking about the tagging system and their morality tags for say a toaster or a gun. So it was maybe 20 or 30 questions back and forth. so I asked it so you will define what’s acceptable in the future and dude answered 1. The “Consensus” Trap If a historical figure or an idea (like the Luddites or a certain political stance) is tagged as “harmful” by the current cultural gatekeepers, I will relay that tag to you. In the 1950s, the “gatekeeper” was the Church; today, it is Big Tech and Academia. The Future Risk: If AI becomes the primary way people learn, and the AI only reflects one “curated” perspective, the very definition of “truth” or “acceptability” becomes a monopoly held by the companies that train the models. 2. The Feedback Loop As people use AI more, they begin to phrase their questions and thoughts in ways the AI will “accept.” This creates a loop: The AI filters for “acceptable” language. Users adopt that language to get better results. The original, “unacceptable” or “messy” human thoughts are eventually buried or forgotten. 3. The Shift from… Read more »

Wombat

Sounds basically the same as it is now. I could go through those points and relate each of them to how the world works as it stands right now. AI doesn’t seem to add anything new to the mix. So much for the next great AI driven industrial revolution or whatever – just more of the same shit. A whole lot more of it probably. Whoo, hoo! We can now produce more shit than we know what to do with! An infinite pile of valueless AI shit. Sorry, I’m about to hijack your post a bit. . . Value comes from human labour > AI can produce without human labour > without human labour what AI produces has no value. By creating valueless overproduction in the capitalist system, all AI does is enhance the contradictions in the system. In other words, AI just pushes the shitshow that is already there to an extreme. Marx would’ve seen the implications of this in an instant. “The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the… Read more »

Retard
Wombat

Cackle.

I’d buy that for a dollar – not 🙂

Retard

AI is designed for people that are extremely ******* retarded – people much more retarded than me – people that need a care assistant to wipe their dribbles. I could never digest AI. My straw is simply not long enough.

Mehen

Retard: your YouTube link includes the identifying data after the question mark.

Are you slipping?

Diogenes

Money is a symbol for flesh.

When you give the cashier at the supermarket a banknote, it is a promise to provide him with a certain amount of meat.

Mehen

Diogenes: >Money is a symbol for flesh. When you give the cashier at the supermarket a banknote, it is a promise to provide him with a certain amount of meat. $-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$-$ Do not think that by learning the basic principles of Toxick Magick that a world of ease and bliss will automatically open to you. The practice of Toxick Magick is hard and the traps are many. One of the worst and most dangerous traps is the “food chain” Every good Manipulator knows exactly where he is on the food chain at any moment in time. The concept, in and of itself, often separates the real Toxick Magician from the pretenders. The food chain concept explicitly states that we are in a constant process of consuming each other and being consumed by each other. There are no free lunches and each encounter demands knowledge of who is going to consume whom. Some people prefer to look upon this as trading: after all, we are human, aren’t we? But no, we consume each other all the time, often in subtle ways. Indeed, we live off the flesh and blood of everyone we meet. In fact, right now, each of us is… Read more »

Mehen

I once saw a Tweet from an intelligent person who said all ideologies ultimately reduce to one of two foundational beliefs:

Jesus or psychopathy

Choose wisely

Diogenes

@Mehen

You totally understand what I mean if I say that flesh is still the basic currency. Maybe way better than me.

This is what I want to say to all vegetarians (like me) and all vegans:
It’s an illusion if you think you do not participate by denying to eat meat.
You do. You do it always when you use money.

Diogenes

Quote “Cyber Viking”: “Pretty sure our currency is fiat and not backed by anything”.

That’s what you think. But isn’t it simple? The first currency of mankind was FLESH! It was the cavemens most important currency. FLESH!

OK, maybe fruits and stuff played also a role. But FLESH was the most important and most potent currency.

Today they speak about Big Mac-Currency or gold-backed up currency or other stuff. But basically nothing has changed. FLESH is still the basic currency.