Population Wide Immunodeficiency: Most people now have exhausted T cells

Almost a year ago I pointed out that the general population in Western countries seems to be suffering some degree of immunodeficiency. And the evidence for this assertion is stacking up. The T-cell immunologist Leonardi made some interesting points on Twitter that are worth emphasizing to me.

This study claims that after 2 years, long COVID patients show improvement of their immune dysregulation.

You have to look carefully at this graph, to see the trick. Red are the long COVID patients, blue the control group. At 3 months and 8 months, they show a higher percentage of PD-1 cells as a percentage of their CD3+ CD8+ T cells. Pd-1 is something your T cells produce to stop them from causing autoimmune problems, it tells them to shut down. It’s a signal you see when a T cell is exhausted.

So at 24 months, the two groups look the same. But what actually happened is not that the long COVID group got better, but that the control group now also shows increased T cell exhaustion!

And another study also found evidence of persistent T cell activation throughout the body, in both long COVID patients and a control group:

It’s not going to be a random subset of your CD8+ T-cells that suffer exhaustion. You would expect it to generally be the ones that have a T-cell receptor that matches some short protein chains found in SARS-COV-2.

If the whole population now has CD8+ T-cells that look for SARS-COV-2 infected cells that are showing signs of exhaustion, that means we’re becoming more vulnerable to the virus. Our immune system just won’t be as good anymore at destroying the cells that were infected by the virus as it used to be. The IgG4 antibodies have the same effect: It’s becoming harder for the immune system to destroy infected cells.

This is positive feedback: The virus damages those parts of the immune system that happen to fight the virus. This helps it establish persistent infections, which helps it spread easier to more people and helps it give rise to new variants. I would expect that more and more people are becoming persistently infected.

The question is what the consequences are of persistent infections. HIV results in a persistent infection, but so does cytomegalovirus. HIV can kill you within years without treatment, cytomegalovirus might cause some decline in immune function with age, but even that is disputed. I think a persistent COVID infection would be quite problematic, as it can infect the endothelial cells.

Of course this also blows a gaping hole in the idea that people are still protected through T-cell immunity against the virus by the vaccine despite the virus mutating away from the vaccines. If the CD8+ T cells that have to protect people against the virus by killing their infected cells are exhausted, that means they can’t properly protect them anymore.

13 Comments

  1. Before the pandemic I read that creatine was fuel for T-cells. Supplementation reduces T-cell exhaustion and promotes anti-tumor T-cells.

    Ever since reading about covid’s damage to T-cells in 2020 I’ve been hoping creatine will protect me somewhat. So far I’m not feeling tired or sick like many are nowadays.

    • I wouldn’t expect any miracles. T cell exhaustion also serves a purpose: It prevents an out of control autoimmune reaction. The T cell exhaustion seems part of the body’s compensatory response.

  2. Read “Cohort characteristics,”

    “The ADAPT cohort enrolled individuals with confirmed COVID-19 from mid-2020, with around 90% of cases community-managed. From this cohort (n=62), sub-groups of participants with LC (occurrence of one of three major symptoms; fatigue, dyspnea, or chest pain) defined at 4-months (median of 128 days) (n=31) and age and gender matched asymptomatic convalescent controls…” ; ” Of note, all participants in this sub-study were unvaccinated at acute infection and enrolment, but most (85%) were subsequently fully vaccinated between 12- and 24-month timepoints [median 474 days (IQR: 429, 507) to first vaccination], with no difference between the groups in terms of vaccine type.
    A small proportion of subjects were reinfected prior to the 2-year visit…”

    There is a group of participants that are sub 10% at 2 years (control and long Covid), maybe equivalent to about 15%. The graph shows improvement buy 8 months by both groups. On average 15-16 months 85% got vaccinated and then inverse improvement at 24 months. I think it’s a coincidence.

    • Yeah we can’t really say based off this data alone whether this is a product of vaccination itself or the combination of vaccination and the resulting waves of mass infection by Omicron variants.

      No matter what the direct causal mechanism is, the result is nasty: The whole population now has elevated level of T cell exhaustion. They’re clearly being excessively stimulated.

      • Whatever is going on is bad.

        But, I’ll guess that the 15% unvaccinated are the bottom 3 in each Long Covid and Control columns at 24 months (wild guess there). Of those 6, 3 were reinfected yet they are semi-okish. Using math you can figure out what’s going on. Using those dots and a bit of probability and statistics with information about the distribution of variation in the vaccine, well… it’s obvious the majority of the affect is a product of vaccination. The 2 lone dots at the top of each column at 24 months is a dead giveaway. How many shots does it take to vaccinate? 2. OK, so if there is a 1 in 19-21 chance you’ll get a hot shot… well… it’s there. The probability is extremely low that the same person got the hot shot twice… it’s more likely someone that didn’t get a hot shot will. Also, look at the distribution of those dots… it’s telling you something. It’s telling you something about the distribution of the shots as well which is already data that’s available.

  3. Labelling people as “control group” without a control for the control group when most people have undergone experimental gene modification in the trial period is ignorant at best and most likely malicious.
    Do you think there is a mechanism linked with the gene tech which can cause T-cell exhaustion, or can we entirely blame this on chronic Covid infection in the population?

    • Yes, the Italian study which Igor Chudov posted about on Aug. 31st (“Half of Vaccinated People Never Stop Producing Spike Protein, Study Found”). If this study can be replicated there is yet one more really big problem: the mmRNA and the artificial spike it produces just don’t seem to break down; they wander the body in immortal form causing damage. My only hope is that the study was badly done; Italians don’t have a great reputation for running studies these days. But there is no incentive for anyone to try to replicate it, for obvious reasons.

      • What I want to know is whether nattokinase would work on the artificial form of the mmRNA and the artificial form of the spike, or if they would be impossible to break down even with nattokinase. Maybe nattoserra would be better? I am hoping to feed nattokinase to everyone who is willing to take it, but if it won’t work on the artificial mmRNA and spike it won’t help much (I guess it would still help with any spike that is due to actual disease).

  4. So we now know that there is a strong Original Antigenic Sin response that diminishes the ability of the vaccinated to respond to new mutated variants.

    But yet despite this, not only do Moderna claim that their new updated booster works against XBB.1.5 (the variant that the booster was designed to target), BUT THEY ALSO CLAIM THAT THIS NEW BOOSTER ALSO WORKS AGAINST THE BRAND NEW SEROTYPE BA.2.86 WHICH HAS 35 MUTATIONS!!!

    “The company said its shot generated an 8.7-fold increase in neutralizing antibodies in humans against BA.2.86”

    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-says-updated-covid-vaccine-is-effective-against-newer-variant-2023-09-06/

    HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?!

    • The ugly bit is in comparing antibody antibody concentrations for the original variant to concentrations for the newly emerging ones.

      There is a two orders of magnitude level difference.

      The OAS effect is huge. Their bragging about antibody levels going up is like a guy with a 1 inch penis going to a nude beach and claiming his penis actually gets three times as big when it gets hard.

  5. Is this not the climate change solution (the final climate change solution)? LSWM like me think that the Covid is just a mild flu, a hoax, just like climate change. I am not afraid of some fake hoax virus that just gives me the sniffles. Covid should do a good job of reducing the human and domesticated animal biomass don’t you think? A biological solution to an ecological problem? The virus and the vaccines are therefore good, not bad. It empties the planet of humans and that is a good thing.

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The patients in the mental ward have had their daily dose of xanax and calmed down it seems, so most of your comments should be automatically posted again. Try not to annoy me with your low IQ low status white male theories about the Nazi gas chambers being fake or CO2 being harmless plant food and we can all get along. Have fun!

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