You still have a choice

So we now have the first case in Texas, of someone who caught bird flu from an infected cow. It infected his eye, which should give you a hint as to how much masks are going to help. This has happened within days of the first cows being infected. By now we have 7 herds in Texas, 2 in Kansas, 1 in Michigan, 1 in New Mexico and 1 in Idaho. The poor cows are an intermediary step, for this abnormally deadly virus that evolves in the chicken concentration camps to jump into humans. Time will tell whether it needs pigs as an intermediary step before the final jump.

But I do know this: Once this thing escalates, there’s no going back. And please realize, you will want to go back and undo what caused this. These bird flu viruses don’t seem to target the lungs in mammals, they mostly seem to damage the brain.

It could be my gut feeling is right and it won’t take more than a few months for this to go horribly wrong. It could also take a few years. But the reality, whether you like it or not, is that you started this yourselves:

This is the problem. You started this war and I don’t get the impression that nature is planning to sit around and let you all kill off the Amazon rain forest in a death spiral of droughts and forest fires that destroy its ability to generate its own clouds.

Half the world’s arable land is directly or indirectly used for meat production. If all that land was released, nature would produce shrubs there, that store and release moisture. Methane concentrations in the atmosphere would begin to reduce within a few years. Carbon dioxide would start to be sequestered. The plants that grow on land no longer used for food production would regulate rainfall, regulate global and local temperatures and sequester carbon.

Don’t be an idiot and show up here insisting that your grassfed beef grazes on natural pastures. We’re above 420 parts per million. The world you remember is gone. Grasslands around the world are supposed to be transitioning to shrubs and forests, to do their job of enabling life to survive.

Look, you just have this ability. Your governments can just decide that enough is enough. You can just start feeding the population the plants that you’re now feeding to the animals in these concentration camps. Soybeans and grain are fed to cattle. Chickens receive grains and even fish from the ocean. This is stuff you can feed to humans. You can also wait of course for Mother Nature to solve the problem. You’ll all insist it was some monstrous conspiracy of course, you’ll go into your grave denying what happened.

But I just don’t get it. Why isn’t there some kind of global emergency program by governments to revamp the food production system and get rid of this reliance on 1200 million tonnes of animals eaten by humans? Do they not realize how late into the game we are, with entire ecosystems being screwed up by man-made superinfluenza viruses jumping from the chickens into wild birds? You literally just have your wild sea bird populations dying out in Scotland now, with wave after wave of avian influenza killing the birds, year after year. Why doesn’t the population recognize how screwed up all of this is?

Why isn’t this something discussed in the news? “Well gee, we found a dead fox with brain damage from bird flu. Well gee, some cows are sick. Well gee, now a man has it.” WHY DON’T THEY TELL YOU HOW WE ENDED UP WITH THESE HYPERVIRULENT INFLUENZA STRAINS? Do these retards think it’s just normal to have entire bird populations die off from influenza? Hey morons, can I just remind you all for a moment of something: You see influenza viruses with polybasic cleavage sites emerge under two conditions: In factory farms and in cell cultures.

Anyway, we have to ask ourselves what happens when the bird flu jumps into the human population. It’s unlikely to be like SARS2, with one single introduction. A single introduction makes it relatively easy to produce a vaccine, because everyone gets roughly the same virus. We’re likely to see numerous strains jump into humans over time. Vaccinating against one strain will then just mean that you’re giving an advantage to the other strains.

Here’s another fun fact: The first jumps into mammal species of these polybasic cleavage site influenza viruses tend to be mild. There is then a very brief period, in which they have to regain their virulence, as they adopt to the new host species. But the polybasic cleavage site (which only evolves under the high densities of the chicken farms, not in nature), ensures that it ends up becoming a virulent virus again.

This polybasic cleavage site is also what allows these viruses to behave very different from regular influenza: It allows this virus to infect your endothelial cells that line all your blood vessels, just like SARS2 does! That’s probably part of the reason these versions of influenza tend to gravitate towards higher virulence: They use different cell types to replicate themselves. So right now the cows getting sick are mostly fine. Give it a few jumps from one cow into another and see if the cows are still fine.

You completely fucked up the natural balance that exists for these viruses. Influenza is normally mild in birds, because it’s spread by birds that have to fly for days from one place to another. Sick birds will struggle to spread influenza, so mild strains are favored. When humans are the ones moving chickens from one place to another, chickens that spend most of their time inside with other chickens, you screw up this dynamic. You’re also moving cows from one state to another, without checking if they have influenza. And of course you dramatically reduced the genetic diversity of domesticated animals, allowing these viruses to spread very rapidly. The cows in the Western world today are almost all Holstein cows descended from two bulls that lived in the late 19th century. Oh and you decided to vaccinate chickens.

Infections from SARS2 force lymphocytes into the brain. After vaccination, this will be mainly T cells, although some antibodies may help protect their brains too. In the unvaccinated, it will be mainly NK cells. The NK cells should be able to offer some protection against the neurovirulent influenza viruses too. They also have the ability to produce acetylcholine, which helps the brain cope with some of the consequences caused by neurovirulent viruses.

Oh while I’m at it, I can not emphasize this enough. We know what discriminates against virulent influenza strains: NK cells. We just have the evidence for this. They preferentially go after cells infected with the highly pathogenic bird flu. Humans and non-human animals are supposed to spread mild influenza strains, so that these abnormal man-made influenza strains from our factory farms with polybasic cleavage sites fail to grow dominant. But this is failing. The polybasic cleavage site variants of infuenza are growing dominant across the web of life, first the Auschwitz chickens, then wild birds, now our cows, soon Homo not-so-Sapiens.

We can receive a surprise strain of SARS2, against which antibodies suddenly dramatically fail, this is hard to predict. But as I have gone through great lengths to document, the constant stimulation of the adaptive immune response against SARS2 comes at the cost of the generalist innate immune system. That’s why you see various signs of elevated infectious disease in the population. When we have an avian influenza pandemic, you can expect that this problem again reveals itself.

It takes a lot of effort, to create this grand finale. But you pulled it off.

I mean, please be intellectually honest to yourself for a moment. The world is filled with giant concentration camps for genetically identical chickens, that weigh more when put together than all of the world’s wild birds put together. Those chickens were vaccinated with vaccines that bred vaccine-resistant influenza viruses. Those influenza viruses have started killing millions of wild birds worldwide, entire species have had their population reduced by more than half in some countries.

Now it jumped into your cows. The first cases are jumping from cows into humans. Eventually it will jump into pigs, there it gets to recombine with other influenza viruses. How do you see this ending yourself? Why am I the weirdo, for pointing out how screwed up this is? Why does everyone just passively continue going through the motions, stuck together in this giant machine that is clearly marching towards a cliff? Are you all going to beg your government to be locked up at home again, when you realize the machine is falling off a cliff again?

If two years from now, we have a billion people dead from bird flu, a billion dead from starvation and another two billion with severe brain damage, are you really going to tell me that this all comes as a shock to you, instead of recognizing it as a logical consequence of humans distorting the entire balance of life on this planet?

You can just stop breeding cattle, pigs and chickens. You can euthanize the living animals. You can embark on survival mode. Or you can just wait and see how nature goes about solving this stinking mess of course. It’s very strange, to see this kind of situation where different lines of evidence all lead to the same conclusion.

It’s cruel how humans treat chickens, pigs and cows.

It’s dangerous, how it spreads severe influenza viruses around the world.

It’s causing deforestation.

It’s causing climate change.

It’s poisoning the soil in the Netherlands with all the manure.

It’s causing harmful algae blooms.

It’s causing hunger.

It’s causing soil erosion.

So is this really going to continue, until mother nature puts a stop to it?

I just really wish people would tell me: What exactly makes you look at all of this and think to yourself “that will sort itself out”? It just reminds me of Dutch people in 1939, who were completely convinced there was no way we would end up involved in the new world war, because we managed to skip the first one.

But how can you look at this and NOT expect it to go terribly wrong at some point?

48 Comments

    • If the Gods see it necessary to purge the world to achieve their vision, who am I to question them? I really don’t care what happens to most people, I only care about dharma.

      • >But SYM, why don’t you care about people.
        Well, I could rationalize it by people slaughtering animals, living conscious beings, enslaving them, taking their children away, and justifying it by saying “they taste good though. But really, it’s not that. I didn’t care about the majority before I became vegan, though I’ve always liked animals more than people. When I was a small child I believed animals were inherently wiser than people, since animals always obey their nature and pursue their own interests; while humans get wrapped up in abstract nonsense. No, it’s not really any of that, I really just don’t like most people. I’m two faced, I smile in the face of old boomers and tell them to “have a good day’ when I wouldn’t really give any fucks if they coughed their lungs out.

        • Whether you like other people, or even care if they live or die, probably won’t make any difference to the overall outcome.

          It seems like chaos out there, beyond rational human control – as if we’re just tiny bubbles on the surface of vast currents that drag us inexorably wherever they’re going.

          So, relax, try to enjoy the ride, and sleep easy.

          • >Whether you like other people, or even care if they live or die, probably won’t make any difference to the overall outcome.
            Exactly, it may be more rational even to detach yourself from the situation. No use being devastated about something you can’t control. Of-course, ethics and empathy are two separate things. I wouldn’t kill everyone if I had the power, that’d be wrong.

    • Aren’t most developed nations reproducing at a rate lower than that needed for sustaining current population levels? Canada has a fertility rate of 1.33, US is 1.66.

      Kids are practically non-existent for people under 30. In my own observations I have multiple friends who have expressed zero interest in ever having children and this is a fairly popular opinion to take.

      A one child policy would be absolute horrific insanity, especially with the ability to select your children based on sex.

  1. “our governments can just decide that enough is enough.”

    No, they really can’t. They are not as in control of events as people tend to believe.

    “But I just don’t get it. Why isn’t there some kind of global emergency program by governments to revamp the food production system and get rid of this reliance on 1200 million tonnes of animals eaten by humans?”

    Well, for starters there is the money. Since Roman times, there have been three ways to make money out of agriculture.

    1. Do animals well
    2. Do animals badly
    3. crops

    There is now, and always has been, a bucket of cash in animals.

    Then there are whole structures and industries that depend on the meat business for that money (and they have influence).

    Universities double dip on funding to set up “centers of excellence”, for example, vast oceans of expensive research get undertaken to develop a cow that doesn’t fart methane (beginner tip, it exists, and it’s called a kangaroo), a vast industry structure exists for marketing, research and development, and lobbying. . .

    The whole lot get enormous intravenous injections of cash from levies on the sale of cattle.

    I’d bet that more money, at least here in Oz, has been spent on meat industry marketing R&D than was spent on WWI and WWII 😛

    We probably could’ve bought whole fleets of merchant ships. . .

    And it’s not as if this stuff is rocket science. There is a formula. Stick X amount of feed, water and antibiotics (yes, I create superbugs that will probably end up eating all our faces off) into X amount of cows, and get X amount of meat.

    All of the R&D in the world isn’t going to improve that.

    But all the eggheads at your universities need to make a living, so do all the marketing peeps, so do the industry representatives, and the farmers, and the shops, etc.

    Plus people need protein, and they like the taste of meat, and they have evolved to eat it.

    But perhaps, most importantly in today’s capitalist world, the market god has decided!

    If people were keen on an alternative, then one would’ve already sprung forth, fully formed from Zeus’ head!

    The proof of the potter is in the pot and all that.

    Or so the economists would have us believe. . .

    • “(yes, I create superbugs that will probably end up eating all our faces off)”

      Sorry, I missed a word or two there, I meant to say: “I know it creates superbugs. . .”

      For clarity, I don’t actually personally create superbugs 🙂

    • If you really want to make a difference, I reckon it’s best to stay outside the system and not rely on government to do it for you at all.

      Because otherwise, the trouble seems to be, that once you start to gain power and influence as an outsider, that the insiders will come making approaches to draw you in. Or perhaps the system insiders will create ‘self-appointed’ leaders to lead organizations that it also creates.

      Once inside, the new players get subverted towards furthering the goals of the system.

      Climate change seems like a good example here.

      Imagine a situation where all this money and awards go to ‘climate youth leaders’ or whatever, and doors open for them, and they get gigs working for the govt, and industry, where they push agendas that any sensible person can see won’t fix the problem, but will keep heaps of industry players, and academics, and politicians, etc. on the gravy train.

      Choo, choo!

      My guess is that rebels/activists need to stay pure, and on the outside, ala Diogenes, or desert fathers etc. if they want to make a difference.

      Resist the ‘Lord of this World’ and all that.

      Not an easy thing to do.

    • All that R&D and marketing into agriculture. . .

      Such a waste.

      All the low hanging fruit gets snarfed fast, then the returns on investment fall away. . .

      But, I guess all the clever dicks need their ‘sit down’ money.

      So much inertia. . .

      I can imagine a time where it gets easier to just walk out on it all and start anew, in whatever is left ‘out there’.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised if the technology to eat meat, without cows, or factory meat, already exists you know.

      But it’s probably too far outside of the box for the marketing people, and the industry people (etc.) and risky to their seats on the gravy train that they’re on to countenance.

      Perhaps something crazy sounding, like getting trained monkeys to harvest iguana meat in Amazon canopy forest. I bet that rainforests, owing to being more three dimensional in nature compared to fields, could produce more iguana meat compared to a cleared acre of rainforest growing cow meat any day of the week.

      But the market God says no. Etc.

    • And one more point on costs, agricultural land comes at a stupidly expensive price, which needs a return to pay off, against a backdrop of declining terms of trade, and rising input costs, etc.

      Perhaps not so easy to step down to a ‘third tier’ enterprise, at least not without going bust.

      It just doesn’t seem like a straightforward thing to change this stuff.

      But let’s imagine the government said: “Hey farmers, you are all out of the meat industry now, here’s a fat cheque under an industry restructure package to shut down and go away!”

      Then the regional schools close, along with the shops, the local industries, people can’t pay their rent, then the bank goes, then the whole country town dies, and/or the people get unhappy and vote for an Orange Man. . .

      And the people in the cities still want meat, so they just substitute the missing local product with meat from Brazil, which makes itself busy cutting down whatever rainforest it has left to ensure it can meet demand. . .

      Problems, problems, problems. . .

      Not easy at all.

      Maybe you could go all ‘Alexander the Great’, and just hack through the whole lot like the Gordian Knot, but that probably takes a crazy kind of power, and a big sword. . .

  2. I’m just about old enough to remember the massive clusterfuck that was foot and mouth disease, and the carnage that it caused on UK and Irish farms. Here’s a short 2 minute segment of a TV program which detailed those events of 2001:

    https://youtu.be/Kd-Vl1wBWeU?t=517

    It’s also worth watching the 9/11 footage which starts at 20:00, which is accompanied by Radiohead’s “Pyramid Song”, which perfectly suits the haunting and sombre video footage.

    • BSE was the one that really freaked out the whole world.

      The used to ask everyone down here if they’d been to Britain as part of the process of giving blood.

      I don’t recall them saying it recently though, so the fear must have diminished.

      Decades later. . .

      Prion diseases are terrifying.

      If I had to pick a doomsday disease, I’d probably back a prion disease.

    • That odious YT pharma shill Debunk The Funk mentioned in passing that he somehow got Hoof and Mouth disease after dozens of vaccinations.
      I found that pretty interesting.

  3. Almost no one is going to change their minds about their lifestyle without the problem directly touching them. Maybe they will become sick or prices become too prohibitive, or the odd person watches a video of cows running and decides it is not worth it to eat meat,

    This kind of problem extends in all directions though and it comes off as the kind of misplaced belief of “waking everyone up” which comes around every time there is some sort of crisis. But waking up is just moving into another level of sleep and the kind of actions that would remove us from the cycle of [insert atrocity here] is to remove as much dependence as possible on systems we do not understand.

    I see us as way overextended in all directions, something will break eventually and we’ll adjust to that new normal and again and again until we are at the ground level. Regardless we can view any of these corrections as Nature’s backlash.

  4. Rintrah, can I suggest that you debate someone who has another POV, like maybe Lierre Keith from Deep Green Resistance?
    That would be fascinating and edifying. We don’t have enough debate in these trying times.

    • Out of curiosity, what’s her opinion?

      My guess (and it is a guess) would be that she’d be keen to just tear down the whole of industrial technological civ, including modern agriculture, and let the chips fall where they may?

      She’d probably argue that you’re hands will be blood red whether you rip it all down and everyone starves, or keep going and it all collapses and then everyone starves, plus the whole planet dies.

      But that is my guess. Perhaps she argues that keeping the meat industry going is likely to kill everyone, so it’s best to keep doing it?

      I’m interested to know.

      • In a debate they would stroke each other over most issues but what we’re interested in how they would honestly disagree.
        Lierre as a reformed and damaged good vegan girl would strongly disagree with Rintrah and destroy him with facts (As she understands them, debatable).
        I think Rintrah would school her on Israel and mass immigration. She’s a far leftist who’s probably been multi-vaxxed and knows nothing about the conspiracy science.
        They would completely agree on “climate change” and I have nothing more to say about that.
        Overall, I would say Advantage Rintrah!

      • Deep Green wants weak, skinny liberal eco-warriors to toughen up by quit whining so much and going off their vegan diets and start drinking bone broth and consuming milk, eggs, and MEAT just as our paleo ancestors wrote about on cave walls.
        Deep Green of course wants an end to industrial civilization, as soon as possible. Billions of people who will die as a result would have died anyway, and it’s better sooner than later for the sake of Nature.

        • Ah, I see. Quite apart from any facts about the health or not of veganism, taking a stance against veganism might also have the side benefit of repelling leftist types from joining DGR.

          Not that I know that there’s an association between veganism and leftism, but it seems to follow that people who’re concerned about animal rights might also be concerned about other types of rights – gay rights, and so on.

          That sort of thing can get in the way.

          I think DGR had a big blow up in its ranks over who can use the ladies toilets.

          How do you blow up the world when your organization can’t even agree on basics like who is a man and who is a woman?

          On this score, I note that Uncle Ted advised would-be revolutionaries to steer clear of accepting lefties into their ranks.

          He argued that ‘rebels’ have a way of co-opting movements, turning them towards the aims of the machine: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-the-system-s-neatest-trick#:~:text=So%2C%20in%20a%20nutshell%2C%20the%20System%27s%20neatest%20trick,the%20System%20leads%20to%20rebellious%20impulses.%20More%20items

          As an aside, is Lierre and that other dude, Jensen, still free? Or are they in prison now for blowing up a dam? They’ve been talking a good game about blowing stuff up for years, I’m not convinced even they have the bottle.

          I’m not sure a revolution against technology will happen.

          Seems pretty unlikely. Not even those who argue for it do it.

          • Wombat, have you read Eric Rudolph’s stuff? I think Eric didn’t like Ted, and despite being on the same corridor in prison, they didn’t make friends. But Ted made friends with McVeigh, that is documented on the site you linked to.

          • I can’t say I have read Eric Rudolph.

            Many years ago, I got interested in ecological issues, and that has been a focus area for me.

            So, I cast about looking for solutions to the vast ‘over-consumption spider’ and the various problems associated with its multiple legs, up to and including destroying the whole system.

            After much crusading and squirming on the hook (and I hate to bring anyone down) I’ve become pretty sure things aren’t going to work out so well.

            I do wonder though if I mightn’t be just a little bit insane, and maybe a little bit depressed, and a little pessimistic 😛

            And it’s not as if, as Rintrah pointed out the other day, that miracles don’t have a way of happening. So, I wouldn’t let my point of view on this sway you or anyone else.

            And the fact that we are here at all is indeed a miracle.

          • I strongly recommend you read him, start with the autobiography “Between the Lines of Drift”
            Eric was more concerned about the decline of America’s morals. There is a fine chapter in the book where he criticises the pretend education system they have over there.
            He once said he sees himself as a man of average IQ who is interested in many things. He absolutely can’t have an average IQ, read the book and you will see. Hats off to him for being modest though.
            A lot of the book is about survival and evasion techniques. He developed most of this stuff on his own. Ted was caught cause his sister in law recognised his writing style. Eric was caught more or less because he got fed up and let his guard down.
            Read it mate, you won’t regret it.

  5. A theory needs to be falsifiable to be scientific

    They changed the name of the scam from Global Warming to Climate Change because the latter concept is utterly unfalsifiable

    Mentioning the climate change scam only destroys one’s credibility nowadays

    • >They changed the name of the scam from Global Warming to Climate Change because the latter concept is utterly unfalsifiable

      Hahahaha you’re like a ten year old boy who wants to talk with his dad and his uncle while they’re playing poker. Go play with your toys.

  6. Your argument is misleading. It is not like you can have 8 billion humans minus all the domesticated animals and we survive. Only 2.5 kg of wild land mammal mass remains for each person on the planet, and it is decreasing. A sixth mass extinction is underway. Modernity is not sustainable by any means. Everyone going vegan is a pipe dream.

    • It’s not my argument; I’m just telling you the deep green thinking as currently represented by Derek and Lierre.
      They want a world with less CO2, with no factory farming of animals, and an end to industrial civilization.
      They also understand the scam of “green energy.”

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  8. There is a history of HPAI (highly pathogenic animal influenza). It has never been very transmissible outside of birds. It occasionally infects people in “very close contact,” but it failed to establish transmission in humans for many years.

    Disclaimer, I am vegan at the moment

    • Yes. Before sustained human to human spread can emerge it first needs to find an intermediary step: A mammal where it can spread from one individual to another. It now has cows for that.

      • Why did the jump to cows not happen, or was not significant, in a century of industrial farming… and it is happening now… exactly when those in power need to cover the jabbie die-off?

        • >Why did the jump to cows not happen, or was not significant, in a century of industrial farming…

          I already explained this.

          To create highly virulent bird flu, you first need these ingredients:

          1. Huge farms with high densities of genetically identical chickens. We did not have those immediately after the world war, people only began eating huge amounts of chicken in recent decades. Under these circumstances, the polybasic cleavage site gains a fitness advantage.

          2. You then need to vaccinate these chickens, to encourage evolution of highly infectious variants, able to jump the species barrier.

          This led to highly pathogenic H5N1 evolving in the 90’s, which then took a few years to start popping up everywhere.

          It takes time for the virus to spread to all the chicken farms and spread into wild birds, which only in recent years have started suffering millions of deaths.

          Then eventually, you end up with some variant in some particular wild bird, that happens to be a decent match for cows.

          That’s where we’re at now. Now it’s a matter of finding out whether bird flu adapted to cows is a good match for humans, or whether it first needs to make an additional jump, before jumping into humans.

  9. Even if we all die horribly soon, at least I’ll go down to my grave with a clean conscience knowing that at least I never was a v-gan.

    • So at your Mormon how often do the priests molest little boys? Are they different from the Catholics in that they prefer little girls instead?

      • Imagine telling a literal LDS turned fundamentalist that Joseph Smith was a fraud, as if it’s some new insightful observation I’d never heard before.

        “Wait, random nerds online say his revelations weren’t even REAL??? OMG, this changes EVERYTHING!”

        1 Timothy 4 v-ganism is satanic

          • I am not in the Jeffs group and have no dealings at all with those people. Except for being all aryan, that religion is a dumpster fire and has pretty much nothing going for it. Keep guessing nigga

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The patients in the mental ward have had their daily dose of xanax and calmed down it seems, so most of your comments should be automatically posted again. Try not to annoy me with your low IQ low status white male theories about the Nazi gas chambers being fake or CO2 being harmless plant food and we can all get along. Have fun!

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